Tucker Carlson interviews Viktor Bout, the Russian arms dealer released in a 2022 prisoner exchange, on the Russia-Ukraine war and European militarization
Tucker Carlson speaks with Viktor Bout about the war in Ukraine, European military escalation, drone warfare, and geopolitics.
Summary
Tucker Carlson interviews Viktor Bout — the Russian arms dealer who was released from a US prison in 2022 in exchange for WNBA player Brittney Griner — about the current state of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Bout argues that the war is not between Russia and Ukraine but between Russia and a NATO-led Western coalition, and that European nations are now directly manufacturing weapons used to strike Russian civilians. He warns that Russia is approaching a threshold where it will have no choice but to strike military production facilities inside European countries, and that European leaders are deliberately pushing toward a wider war to maintain their grip on power. Bout also characterizes the conflict as a religious war, citing the Ukrainian government's suppression of the Russian Orthodox Church and what he describes as the desecration of the Kyiv Pechersk Lavra monastery. He argues that the war could be ended almost immediately if the United States cut off Starlink access and satellite intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
Bout also describes Ukraine as the largest money-laundering operation in history, alleging that roughly one-third of all Western aid was recycled back into political slush funds in the United States — referencing Hunter Biden and Burisma among others — and drawing comparisons to Epstein-style influence operations used to compromise Western politicians. He additionally discusses the Iran conflict and its downstream economic consequences, including disruptions to global fertilizer supply and chemical precursor chains, as contributing to the broader instability that Western leaders are failing to address.
Key Takeaways
FULL TRANSCRIPT
The Nature of the Conflict: Russia vs. the Western Coalition
Tucker Carlson: Mr. Bout, thank you very much for doing this. Americans have been distracted — I think I've certainly been distracted — by what's happening in Iran. But there has been a very significant escalation in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and really between Russia and the West. Can you describe how that conflict has changed recently?
Viktor Bout: There are several points. Let's start from the situation that this conflict is not a conflict between Ukraine and Russia. This conflict is basically between Russia and an entire coalition of the willing — NATO, the United States, plus other vassals, I would say, of the Western world, who just blindly comply. So from the get-go they supplied Ukraine with all kinds of armaments. Initially it was Javelins and MANPADs — anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles. Then it went to the Patriots. Then it went to tanks — Abrams, Leopards. Then it went to the F-16s. And every time, Ukrainians and their handlers, especially in London, especially MI6, think this would be a game-changer. It doesn't work.
Ukraine is really losing ground — maybe not as fast as we want, but the front line is progressing. Every week several villages and small towns are being liberated by the Russian army. And of course, since last year, the decision was made to remove all military production from Ukraine to Europe, which was done efficiently. Just over a month ago, the Russian Ministry of Defense published a list of all the factories in Europe that are in fact producing armaments for the Ukrainian army. So think of this — their logistics, their industries are now in Europe. Europe is now a natural part of this conflict, and we hear from their leadership more and more openly that they are in full support of Ukraine and they want this war against Russia to go on until the last Ukrainian. This is a very much war-mongering approach, and where it's going to lead — well, they moved this production there.
About two months ago, a mass quantity of drones started coming to Ukrainian troops. They received the capacity to launch simultaneously up to 500 or 600 drones with a long range — over 1,500 kilometers, let's say about 1,000 miles. So they're trying to hit our refineries, trying to hit some civilian buildings — definitely if it has any strategic value or results. Well, yes, there is a reducing of production in a refinery for a couple of days, then basically the refinery is back up and running. And then they changed completely to terror attacks. We know that, for instance, this was a terror attack when they perfectly knew that in the Lugansk region there was a college where over 100 students were in the dormitory, and the drones came and attacked, and as a result 21 students were killed. Then it was not the end of the story. There was no excuse. They said there was a soldier there. Well, journalists went and proved there were students and there was no military presence there, even close.
After this there were attacks on several buses. They started using these drones in the border region to attack civilians — any car going by, because of these new so-called Martian drones with AI vision that make the decision which target to attack. So they just — not even an operator — the drone goes and chooses any target, any moving car, any moving object, even hitting a kid on a bike. It's a purely terrorist approach. They're trying to sow discord and panic within the Russian population. But guess what? It only makes the Russian population more resolute, and there is more and more demand from our president and from our top military commanders: "Hey, you need to really finish this. We have enough arsenal of proper weapons that would definitely bring this war quickly to the end — not even resorting to nuclear ones."
European Countries Manufacturing Weapons Used Against Russian Civilians
Tucker Carlson: Which European countries are manufacturing these drones and armaments being used against civilians in Russia?
Viktor Bout: Well, first of all, there are many factories in Poland, in Germany, in France, in Italy, in Denmark, in Turkey — there is a presence of them — I would say Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, of course Britain with huge manufacturers who are contributing to their so-called cruise missile program, Flamingo, which is in fact a British one. And all this is officially announced: "Hey, we are producing this, Ukraine will get the capacity to hit deep inside Russia."
Well, this is again pushing us very close to a conflict where finally we would have no other choice but to start hitting logistic centers in Poland, in Romania, in Germany, in all these countries, because they are part of the conflict. According to all international law, we have a full right to attack those because they are manufacturing armaments and they are declaring that these are factories belonging to Ukraine. Think of this — if we put an analogy: would Israel tolerate if Hamas or Hezbollah had a factory in Jordan or Turkey manufacturing Katyusha rockets hitting Israel? Hell no. They would immediately attack them. That is the difference.
So sometimes in the West they think that restraint on the part of our leadership is weakness. But look at what's going on in the world. We are really now very close to an all-out World War — in the hottest stage — and there would be no brakes to stop it. And honestly, as you said, you've been too busy with Iran — and rightly so — because think of this: if this conflict in Iran will not stop and protracts, what kind of economic damage is it already causing? Because we're talking about — yes, it's clear that the most visible is oil, which is not flowing through the Strait of Hormuz — but as important is the fertilizer which was cut out of production there. Iranians have been very big producers of certain kinds of fertilizer worldwide, so it's already affecting American farmers. And now, according to the forecast of the United Nations, there would be a shortage of food and eventually hunger, first of all in Africa. We're also talking about all kinds of different chemical precursors necessary for the technological supply chain in China, which goes all over the world. So this will affect all of humanity.
Thank God President Trump made the decision — maybe very late, but still — to extricate himself from this conflict, and it's good news for humanity. Otherwise we're still on the balancing edge where one wrong move by Europeans, encouraging Ukraine to attack Russia, could cause a reaction where Russia would have to respond with all its might just to stop it, and then it will cause eventually an unpredictable reaction, and we can very quickly escalate to a nuclear exchange. And then nobody knows what will be left of humanity.
The Loss of Responsible Political Leadership in Europe
For me personally, what I'm watching looks like we've lost a generation of responsible politicians, especially in Europe. First of all, Europe, as we speak, is transitioning from basically a dictatorship — and it's not only dictatorship in each country like happened before the World Wars, but it's a double dictatorship. Many of them are basically unpopular but still cling to power by manipulating elections, like we saw recently in Romania. That's the best example. But basically nobody was even considering the opinion of the people. They just installed governments which are what the globalist or European leadership desires. The same is true for other countries. And then you have the Brussels bureaucracy — or dictatorship — which basically deprives all these countries of their sovereignty.
And this is combined with the economic crisis, because Europe already committed economic suicide by cutting themselves off from reliable and relatively cheap Russian energy sources. Like pipeline gas — now they're forced to buy LNG from all over the world and compete at higher prices. German industry is no longer competitive. We know that for the first time in the past 80 years, the German automotive industry is basically on its final deathbed. So what are they doing? They're converting former Volkswagen and Audi plants into lines to produce weapons and militarizing the country. Germany introduced a law where the male population cannot leave the country without first registering at special military recruiting points. They are openly saying they need to have the strongest army in Europe within three years.
Well, we've already heard this before. It was right before World War I. World War II started with Hitler in power, and by the way, Hitler was also elected democratically. And we know what kind of consequences that left for the entire world. So for me, observing these processes and understanding that our government really tries all possible ways and means to bring some idea — "Hey, let's negotiate, let's mind our own business, let's rediscuss and rearrange and have a proper security structure in Europe which would prevent any future conflict" — this whole proposal has been denied for the past 20 years.
We're seeing militarization and preparation for a bigger war, and the extension of NATO — especially the recent one when Finland became part of NATO — is really causing concern. It's our national security concern. Russia already reacted by forming a new military district near that border, and our border with Finland is about 1,500 miles. So we have to put our resources there. And Finland recently stated that they would allow nuclear weapons to be brought into their territory and stored there.
It looks like the European elites are seriously considering an all-out, full-blown war with Russia, and they think they're going to win in a conventional war. Well, let me tell you — there is bad news for them. Russia will not answer conventionally to their attempts to attack us. In our military doctrine, there is a postulate — a formula — where if we feel that any attacks against us are threatening our existence, we will answer with nuclear weapons. And believe me, Russia has the second-to-none nuclear and most modern arsenal in the world. We definitely, with one missile, can completely obliterate and destroy all life on the territory of a country like England or France. And that's definitely not where we want to go. But if they're considering that they can conquer us, split us into 32 small parts, make them resource colonies — it ain't happening.
Why European Leaders Want War
Tucker Carlson: I think everything you're saying is real. I think in the West, we imagine that President Putin is the most radical person in Russia. I think he's been a force for restraint, but that may not be possible for much longer. So I believe everything that you're saying. I don't understand why European leaders would want to have a war with Russia. What is the motive?
Viktor Bout: The way I see it, all these leaders — look at Macron, look at this — these people are the most unpopular in their countries. Think of the European bureaucracy in Brussels. So for them, the war is maybe the only way to cling to power, to stay in power, to keep their influence. If they go to war, they can declare a state of emergency — what do you call it — declare a war regime in countries and say, "Okay, we postpone the election," and then they grab power completely.
Another one — we talk about the globalists who basically fully control Europe. Especially Soros, who for the last 30 years has invested heavily and grew up all these leaders since their early teens. They became students, they were paid to study in universities, then they became activists, then they became politicians, and finally they became leaders of their countries who have basically no feeling even for their own native countries. They don't care about their own future. They are all part of this suicidal, satanic cult.
And this is where we come to it. For me, this conflict with Ukraine has basically become a religious conflict. And this is where we feel like this is maybe a final battle with evil forces, because what these people are doing, how they're treating even the old population — last week I was taking part in a press conference where we had a public tribunal. It's not an official tribunal, you know, for the crimes of the Ukrainian regime. And every time a group of volunteers goes to freshly liberated areas, towns and villages in Ukraine, and questions the local population who stayed there, who remained and waited for the Russians to come and liberate them — their stories are horrific. How the Ukrainians came to them threatening them: "You stayed there. You wanted to see the Russian army come and liberate you. You are traitors. We'll kill you." And they deprived them of water. They just shot anybody who moved on the street, just for fun. They treated them really like an occupational force, and on many occasions even more ferocious, more horrific than what used to happen during the Nazi German army occupation during World War II.
By the way, today we have a national remembrance day — the first day when Germany attacked the Soviet Union, at 4:00 in the morning on June 22nd. So for Russians, and for many republics of the former USSR — Belarus, the Central Asian republics — this is a very somber day when we all remember our grandfathers, like mine, who died fighting in the Battle of Kursk. And this is really, really huge for us.
So we Russians know what war is. We know what consequences come from it. And for all of us — because we're basically the same people as the Ukrainians, because the soldiers in both trenches are speaking the same language — for us it looks more like a civil war than a war with a foreign enemy. And knowing how quickly, in literally less than 20 years, brainwash propaganda was able to prepare a huge mass of these neo-Nazis — Banderites — who are now acting like Nazi SS divisions, who are proudly celebrating — just recently Zelensky brought the leaders of the Ukrainian Bandera movement from Europe, their remains, and with full honors buried them in a special memorial cemetery near Kyiv.
This of course sparked some conflict with Poland, because these Ukrainian nationalists — what we call Bandera troops or gangs — were responsible for ethnic cleansing not only of Jews and Russians, but also of Poles. Over 100,000 Poles were killed by them in those areas. And now think about this: Europeans who have been swearing that they would not allow any rebirth of fascism — and by the way, in Germany it's forbidden to display any swastikas or Nazi symbols — but they are blind to see that in Ukraine there are many divisions, many military units openly wearing Nazi insignia, and there is nothing — crickets — from the German investigative journalists, all those who are present. So for them, as long as they are fighting Russians, it's good.
And it's also very serious that Germany is openly talking again of another big campaign against Russia. We know how it ends. And believe me, if we need to repeat what our grandfathers did, we will do it. But we'd rather try to find those with sober minds and say, "Hey, do you know the consequences? Do you really want to see Europe destroyed and demolished again, and then rebuild again?" I don't think so. The population hasn't even been asked.
I'm utterly sure that in every European country there is a majority of normal people who, like you, like me, like many normal people everywhere in the world, are willing to have peace, prosperity, and normal cooperation. And all problems or disputes we can solve through negotiations — whether commercial or otherwise. But apparently, despite thinking that we are at an advanced level of our civilization, that we can be proud of our achievements in technology, science, and medicine — look how we are different from what happened 2,000 or 3,000 years ago. We're still again in these vicious cycles of war, vicious cycles of the ego of our leaders, vicious cycles of people who just grab for treasures they can go and seize in other countries as a result of their invasion or attack. We're basically exactly the same mentality.
And this is maybe the problem of humanity. And unless we change it, we're basically doomed, if we don't see some drastic changes in the next couple of years. Because look — drones have changed a lot. Now we see what's happening with AI. And this manifesto — what they call it — the technocratic manifesto of Alex Karp is basically technofascism. And now think of this: if the mass production of drones is unleashed on battlefields where there is full control of surveillance systems, social credit control over all the population — which they want to introduce — then we as humans are left with very little opportunity.
In this case, Russia may be the last holdout, which by fighting on the front lines of this conflict is not only defending our future and our sovereignty, but maybe the future of all of humanity, the way we know it, the way we want it to be in the future.
Tucker Carlson: Well, I can understand why Barack Obama wanted to put you in prison. Now I understand perfectly well.
The Religious Dimension of the Conflict
Tucker Carlson: Now, may I ask you to expand on something you said at the beginning — that this is fundamentally a religious conflict?
Viktor Bout: Think of this. The majority — over 80% of the population of Ukraine — was Russian Orthodox Church of the Ukrainian patriarchy, which had its own autonomy but was an integral part since ancient times. Remember, Kyiv was the city where the Russians received their Christianity. So for us, Kyiv is part of our national cultural code.
And so the artificial creation of Ukraine appeared relatively less than 100 years ago, and it was invented by the Austro-Hungarian military leaders who were trying to control the Russian-speaking population of the empire. So they created this nationalistic movement and tried to brainwash them that they are different. But basically this population identified themselves as Orthodox and as Russians. They had been speaking a dialect of Russian. They had been believing in the same church. So for us, the church was exactly the same.
And then since the bloody coup in 2014, they started to decide that they needed to make a reform. They needed to abolish the Russian Orthodox Church and create a Ukrainian Orthodox Church. They got a separatist, smaller church. And then for the past 12 years, they've just been using the police, using gangs of these neo-Nazis — who, by the way, were never Christians. They are pre-Christian believers with their own pantheon of gods, not Jesus Christ. So with their help, they tried to go to each church and force the original priest out, put a new lock on, and say, "This is now the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, not the other one."
So there is a war against them. And then for us, the Kyiv Pechersk Lavra — it's a monastery with the most ancient, uninterrupted history of service in the Russian Orthodox Church, with a lot of relics buried in its huge underground tunnels. They shut it down. They evicted the monks. And now they're pillaging whatever relics and bodies of saints which had been buried and mummified in this huge system of underground caves. All those are now being pillaged and sent to Europe. All the priests have been evicted. And what they did in the biggest temple there — they just created a military canteen and are doing Satanist performances. So for us, this is also a big deal — a religious war.
Think of this: those Ukrainians who are living in a police state can't express a different opinion. Their government is hunting people on the street — all males capable of holding a weapon — and sending them to the front line, because the Ukrainian army is losing a lot and they need manpower. So in this condition, the population in Ukraine is completely under the strictest and most probably most harsh conditions. I would compare it to the biggest prison under the open sky, because you can't leave Ukraine unless you belong to the elites. You'll be caught and sent to the front line to be used as cannon fodder, and then you'll last about a couple of days — if you're lucky, if you surrender to the Russian army.
We see every time that they're losing so much that every body exchange between Russia and Ukraine usually goes like the recent one: Russia transferred to Ukraine about 1,000 bodies and received back about 27 bodies of fallen soldiers. And this proportion tells you about the huge demographic problem. There is no future, because several generations have been killed by this policy of this leader.
By the way, there is a problem with Zelensky because his term has expired. He didn't want to announce new elections. His so-called parliament — their terms are also expiring. And a very rightful question is: with whom do you negotiate? Who has the legal authority to even sign any agreements or peace deal in their name? And this is also another question to ask — why doesn't Zelensky want to have an election?
And why do all these people talk so much but disregard the desire of the Ukrainian people? According to recent polls done by Western organizations — I think it was American and British — they found, and double-checked several times, that over 80% of Ukrainians want a peace deal with Russia. This is the problem.
So what will the future be? We don't know. But we're really, really worried, because look — Ukraine is now trying to attack nuclear power plants. There were several attempts to hit the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and their entire endeavor in the Kursk region of Russia — you remember, it happened in 2024 when they by surprise went into Russian territory. The entire target was the Kursk nuclear power station. They wanted to hijack it or occupy it and then try to negotiate with Russia, or swap it for Zaporizhzhia or something else. It didn't happen.
Now we're also seeing worrisome rhetoric from Zelensky, who is threatening Belarus. So they're trying to do some kind of lightning strike operation in Belarus. Well, I don't know if his army is capable of opening another front line over about 1,000 miles in length — it looks suicidal. But I think we're living in an age where logic or pure logical calculation is not working anymore. All these leaders in Europe look more like buffoonish clowns. Well, Zelensky at least openly was a clown — we saw all his performances. But what can you expect from France or Germany or, for that matter, Britain — can they not have somebody more decent than those despicable personalities?
When you see how they behave, what they're doing — I feel very much sorrow for the proud people of France, Germany, and England. What's happening there — basically the fabric of even European civilization is being demolished and destroyed. There is a huge replacement of the population happening with this uncontrolled immigration. Unfortunately it's also happening in America for a very long time. I guess this is one of the points of the globalist elites — let's replace basically the white Christian population with somebody we can easily control and use as foot soldiers for their expansion campaign.
You know, there is a connection — discussed for a very long time — between a certain strand of radical leftism and extreme Islamic fundamentalism. Trotskyites have had a lot of common ground with jihadists and all these fundamentalists, especially the Islamic ones, and this is really, really dangerous.
Another very important point I want to share with you. Apparently we've lost some kind of limits of dignity. Look at what's happened with this conflict in Iran — when from the first day they were openly killing innocent children in schools. The same is happening with Ukrainians. And all the international law, all the rules — written and unwritten — of conflicts, all the military codes of conduct: when two armies fight, when you put up the white flag, you surrender, it's over. All of that has been thrown in the garbage bin. Nobody abides by these rules anymore — except Russia.
And for us, we can't just be as despicable as our enemies. So our army behaves very decently. Think of this — I think you reported it — there were many cases when our soldiers who were captured and became prisoners of war were forcefully sterilized, killed by doctors. What kind of doctor are you if you have to help an injured soldier? Yes, he is captured, but it's still your duty to treat him. He is a prisoner of war. He's not a criminal. And those doctors in Ukraine who were amputating their genitalia, killing them, harvesting their organs, branding swastikas on their bodies — and those soldiers, when a Russian soldier surrenders because he's run out of ammunition or something, they just kill him, and they kill him in the most vicious way, often making footage of it and then boasting about it: "Yeah, this is how we killed this one." So this is why I'm telling you it's becoming not only a conflict where two sides are very angry at each other, but this has become a religious war.
How the War Could Be Stopped: Starlink and Satellite Intelligence
Tucker Carlson: Is there any way to stop it?
Viktor Bout: Well, look, there are two ways. Of course, now there is a lot of push inside Russia. We're saying to our government, "Hey, why don't we use the proper means? Why don't we kill Zelensky? Because we have all the means." So of course, how do you deal with a satanic cult? Well, sooner or later you need to just eliminate them, because there's no way you can negotiate with them.
Another situation — think of this. There were negotiations last year in Anchorage, Alaska, where Putin and Trump met and basically discussed things, and Trump made promises about how to settle this conflict. Russia accepted this, and we're still waiting for Trump to do his part of the deal. Apparently there is no result — he can't, or doesn't want to, do it. Then recently Russia decided, "Well, we'll finish it by ourselves with our military." Of course it would be easier to finish it through negotiations. Well, Trump can stop this war very quickly.
Ukraine heavily depends on two factors. Without these two factors, they can't fight even a day. First of all, this is Starlink — the key communication system. If you switch it off, then the Ukrainian army has no communication, no control of their drones. They can't attack deep inside Russia. All signals, everything, go through Starlink. So all these long-range drones that killed our children in buses, or that killed the coach of the Belarusian soccer team which was traveling from Belarus to a Black Sea resort — and the Ukrainian drone attacked it, knowingly, knowing this was a bus full of kids, not a single soldier — they all used Starlink technology.
So that's number one. Second one — no single attack is possible if the United States will not share intelligence information from satellites. Because every time Ukrainians are attacking, it's an online approach — online access to the entire group of American spy satellites, which tell them where the air defense is, where the radar coverage is, where a new passage has opened because the Russians moved something. This is very critical. Think of this: if these two factors are removed, basically within one day the Ukrainian army would be in complete chaos. They can't even communicate among themselves. Everything — from commanding to choosing targets — is integrated into the NATO system, and basically people in the Pentagon have full access to the battlefield from their offices, because they are providing the system to Ukrainian soldiers. So the Ukrainian army can only exist when this communication and intelligence are flowing to them. The moment it stops, they're just blind. They stop fighting.
Another one — despite Trump refusing to provide any new delivery of weapons to Ukraine, he still, I guess, is finishing whatever the Biden administration was supposed to deliver to them. All those armaments. And now they're talking of approving a new package, and Trump says, "Okay, if you buy, I'll send you" — well, I don't care if these HIMARs will kill innocent civilians in Crimea, or they're threatening to attack the Crimean Bridge, or they're now threatening to use chemical weapons or even biological ones. There were already several documented cases when Ukrainians used poisonous gas, or used white phosphorus — which is forbidden by international convention — or tried to spread some biological agents with the hope that this would spread and cause severe damage. So this is all a terrorist approach.
Of course, if the Ukrainian regime is in agony and has no other resource but to start an all-out terrorist war against the Russian population, well, they will not achieve it, because it will only make us more angry and more resilient to finish this war the way we wanted to from the first day of this conflict.
How Drone Technology Has Transformed Warfare
Tucker Carlson: I have to ask, because you were in the armaments business for so long and know a lot about weapon systems — how do you think drone technology will change warfare going forward?
Viktor Bout: Well, it's already changed drastically. The tactics have completely changed over four years — incredibly. If somebody had said four years ago this would be the war, nobody in the military would have believed it. I have many friends on the front lines dealing with this, and they tell me every two weeks there is a change in tactics because of the drones. Every two weeks there is a new improvement in technology or something else, and they have to find countermeasures to tackle it.
So this is a huge development, and it's really the future. Now there is a race of technological capacity — who will outproduce more drones, which drones will be cheaper and more efficient, and which drones will not be subject to jamming or other countermeasures. This is a war, unless there is some possibility that a technological solution will be found — when you can just make sure that no single drone can operate, using some high-frequency weapons or other weapons using other physical principles we don't know yet. But definitely it's all now being tested on the battlefield, and believe me, improvements are happening so quickly.
For instance, many military units now have their own workshop where they produce necessary spare parts, 3D printing, assembling the drones, adjusting them, reprogramming them. There are even many where they're putting their control units with microchips together themselves. It's becoming mind-blowing. And it's really becoming now a competition not only of foot soldiers who are bigger or more physically fit, but also a fight for the more skilled soldier — those who can operate drones, those who can quickly assemble and produce them, those who can quickly repair them, those who can quickly use them properly. So this is a huge change.
And now I think there is a new arms race in the world where many countries are trying to study this experience from this conflict and adapt their own forces accordingly. And we're seeing that Ukrainians, since the get-go, started selling the armaments the West was supplying them on the black market. There are many reported cases of delivery — including to Hamas, including to Hezbollah, including to Mexican cartels. And I'm not even talking about — nobody knows how much illegal arms are now in criminal circles in Europe. So that would be another time bomb which European countries have unfortunately planted for their own future.
Israel's Silence on Ukrainian Arms Sales to Hamas and Hezbollah
Tucker Carlson: May I ask you one question though? What you just said — I believe it's factually true. Elements of the Ukrainian military sold weapon systems they received from the West — the United States, NATO — to a bunch of different terror groups around the world, including Hezbollah and Hamas. Now, Israel has a very close relationship with the Zelensky government. Israel has to know that. If you and I know that, the Israelis know it. But they've said nothing about it. Why would the Israeli government allow the Zelensky government to sell weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah?
Viktor Bout: Well, that's a million-dollar question, I would say. Another one — why on earth would Israelis send over 2,000 instructors to train the Ukrainian army at the beginning of the conflict? How come they refused to really condemn what's happening with this reburial of the Banderite leaders in Ukraine? So the country that is celebrating and defending the memory of the victims of the Holocaust is apparently in cahoots with a Nazi regime. And the defense that Zelensky is a Jew is not working anymore. If a Jew betrayed the memory of his family, of his grandfather — who, by the way, was a colonel of the Red Army and fought the Nazi Germans — his grandfather would maybe now be turning in his grave, knowing that his grandson basically sold out his nation, his memory, and what he did by fighting German Nazism, defending the future. So his grandson would go and destroy Ukraine and sell it out to the Nazis again. It's unbelievable.
So definitely the Israelis knew, but by some means we're living in a world where hypocrisy has become the norm. And sometimes — even 20 or 30 years ago — you could see leaders when they were lying, they felt uncomfortable. I think now for them, lying and being hypocritical has become completely normal. And if you're honest and open-minded, it looks like almost a deviation. It's an amazing moment. It's very hard to understand what's happening.
Tucker Carlson: It does seem like drone technology means that no civilian population is safe.
Viktor Bout: Correct. And Ukrainians have a special tactic — whenever they abandon a certain village or small town, they immediately terrorize the civilian population with drones. They're hitting kids. They're not allowing elderly women to go and get water. They're not allowing them to receive humanitarian aid. They're really terrorizing with no military sense whatsoever. What are you doing? And since they've got a lot of drones — would you believe that for each soldier, sometimes up to 20 city drones are sent just to kill one soldier?
Casualty Numbers and Ukraine's Demographic Crisis
Tucker Carlson: How many Ukrainians and Russians have been killed in this conflict? Do you know what the real numbers are?
Viktor Bout: Well, no, I cannot tell you exact numbers, and eventually it's very difficult to estimate. But one thing is clear — Ukraine has suffered at least a 3-to-1, if not 5-to-1, casualty ratio compared to Russian losses. Just analyze how many cemeteries have appeared in Ukraine and how quickly they are filled up. And the Ukrainian army doesn't care how many soldiers they're going to lose. They're doing everything to suit the nice photo op or any propaganda purposes of the Zelensky regime, when he wants to report that he's sending endless waves of soldiers. Basically they have no chance to survive, but they're still sending them. And whenever they surrender, and it's time to remove them, they never give the order to get out — unless they would be encircled. They let their own soldiers literally perish. They never remove many of the bodies.
There are several reasons. First of all, we know that for every fallen soldier, the Ukrainian government has to pay a significant amount. So for them, accepting any death is kind of painful. So they have a practice where they consider the majority of dead people as missing in action. And when the Russians return their bodies, the family has to go through a painful process in Ukraine to prove that he is dead and the government owes them money. Then they say, "Okay, you're going to get this money within 10 years, in small installments." So even they are basically fooling their own people — those who believed them, who sent their sons to fight. This is a horrible strategy.
Demographically, Ukraine cannot be the same anymore, because their population — especially the male one, especially of reproductive age — is basically destroyed. Now they're starting to bring immigrants from India, Bangladesh, or Pakistan, trying to replace the population. According to certain data, there are now over 300,000 there, and they want to bring more, because basically the villages are empty. There are only elderly women left.
And since the war is protracting and we're forced to destroy the infrastructure in Ukraine which is feeding the military installations, there is no water, no electricity, no communication. So it's a very grim future. Especially — look — Russia was forced to destroy their central thermal stations, which are responsible for heating in the big cities. So now, what Ukraine is not telling — and they're trying to sell to the West that they are winning on the front lines, trying to attack some refinery deep inside Russia — is that Ukraine cannot even maintain a decent temperature in homes during the winter. We're not even talking about hot water supply. Their capital is in such a decimated state — from attacks, from corruption, from negligence predating this conflict — that it would not be livable during the winter. And it's not only the capital but many other cities in Ukraine.
So this is a huge story — when Ukraine became a black hole for corruption and the hugest money laundering machine in history. We know that Ukraine has apparently been involved in all political scandals in the United States for the last 10, 15, 20 years.
Tucker Carlson: How many impeachments were there? And they all have a Ukrainian connection.
Viktor Bout: So since about 2002, 2004, Ukraine heavily invested in lobbyists in the United States. We know everything from the Hunter Biden-Burisma employment, and apart from Hunter Biden there were many others who are not that well known yet, who were on the pay list of the Ukrainian corrupt regime. Plus, we never know the exact amount, but think of this — I would estimate maybe one-third of everything sent to Ukraine was recycled back into political slush funds in the United States, especially for the Democratic Party. We know there are many senators who are so happy to go to Ukraine. We know many cases when Ukrainians paid lavish honorariums to come to Kyiv, walk through, and make photo ops with Zelensky. So they tried to buy their influence. They corrupted the West, they corrupted the United States.
And eventually there is a lot of similarity with Epstein — basically Zelensky is using the same tactics. Let's not only corrupt with money, but let's provide such facilities where all the visitors can have everything they want. You want drugs? It's there, plentiful, free. You want underage girls? It's free. You want something else, more satanic? You're welcome.
I think this is an issue for the American taxpayer, who is really now suffering themselves. And instead of minding their own problems — like unrepaired bridges, making sure that at least water is clean in all small towns in America, or that infrastructure corresponds not to the third world but at least to the superpower level — they would be shocked to know that all their money, instead of this, was sent to Ukraine. And this was basically not for a good purpose. The majority of it was stolen by Ukrainians. Another part was given back as a bribe. And whatever was left was somewhat used for the so-called defense of the independence of the Ukrainian people who are suffering from Russian aggression.
Tucker Carlson: Yeah. And in the meantime, they destroyed one of the last majority white Christian countries on the planet. So maybe that was the point.
The Prisoner Exchange: Viktor Bout for Brittney Griner
I have to ask you one last question, because I've thought about it. You were released in a prisoner exchange under the Biden administration. You were in an American prison for a long time. When the exchange happened, you're a very famous person internationally and in Russia. The Biden administration traded you — released you — in exchange for the release of a women's basketball player on a marijuana charge. Were you surprised by it? It seemed asymmetrical.
Viktor Bout: Brittney Griner.
Tucker Carlson: Yes.
Viktor Bout: Well, by one thing — for me, this was literally some kind of insult, you know? At least they could have done Paul Whelan, which I was expecting.
Tucker Carlson: Exactly.
Viktor Bout: But on the Biden administration's time, this was maybe the only choice. And this is why: she was Black, she was a lesbian, and she was a basketball player. If not for NBA fans who put a lot of pressure on the Biden administration — ESPN was running every day a kind of stunt to call attention that Brittney Griner was still in a Russian prison for almost nothing, for some small quantity of CBD oil which is forbidden in Russia — they put a lot of pressure. So the Biden administration, because they succumb to the LGBT agenda and they needed to bring it to the front and center of their attention and policy, was forced by this kind of activism. When you put on one hand NBA fans and on the other the LGBT community, for Democrats it's basically — you're done, you can't even move, you can't do anything. And when these two come to you, you better do what they want. You have no choice.
So for me it was clear when this started. Of course the negotiations protracted, but well, I can't complain. I'm thankful that my government decided to bring me back, despite — well, by the other hand, I was already like a product with an expiring date. Pretty soon, if they didn't exchange me this time, in four years by now I would have been released anyway. Nevertheless, so for Americans, I was kind of losing big value. Despite the fact that they created this dramatic myth about me — that I was the biggest arms dealer in the world, that I was second to Bin Laden, that whatever happened in the world I was responsible for it, without any proof. Well, I have no grievance about it. Whatever happened, happened. It would maybe be the subject of different books or movies or storytellers. But now I'm more concerned not about my past but about our present and about the future.
Russia and America: Common Ground and Hope for Cooperation
Because look — I spent, from 14 years, almost 12 years in United States prison in lockup. And during this time there were a lot of Americans — real patriots — with me. Many of them were political prisoners. And I learned a lot about how real America lives from their stories. And I believe that Russia and the American people have so much in common.
Tucker Carlson: I agree.
Viktor Bout: Because of our geography — because we are both peoples who are very generous, very hardworking, who have basically the same mindset. Because when you have this geography, you can only conquer it and live on it by having a completely different mindset. And this is our similarity.
And I do believe that if America would be able to free itself from the control of the globalists — who are really using America as a test ground before they run all over the world — because look at history: they started with the American population. De-industrialization, the sexual revolution, drugs — all were first introduced in America. Destruction of the normal family in the Black population, then bringing the transgender agenda, the LGBT agenda, and then it starts spreading all over. So in this case, for me, the American nation is the real resistance — who, despite all the facts, despite all the mainstream media dictatorship and control, there are still independent voices like you, like others, independent journalists like Alex Jones and many, many others, who despite all the problems are still able to have the opportunity to speak their mind, despite every time they encroach on this liberty of freedom of expression.
And this is why, in my opinion, we really can not only have a normal relationship — which I wish we could — but we can have a really, really good friendship with the United States. And think of this: if our two countries put our resources, our ingenuity — because Russia also invented a lot of things, the same way America does, and many of your inventors basically came from Russia. If we talk about the history of television, we talk about Sikorsky, we talk about many others. So there is always an interpolation happening between our cultures.
If we unite and stop fighting, stop being sworn enemies, and cooperate to solve the problems we have on this planet, then the sky is the limit — or maybe even the sky is not the limit. And together, think of this — we really can explore space. If we focus, and instead of spending money on how we can guarantee to destroy the planet 100 or 200 times over, we put this effort into science, into modern medicine, into space exploration, into new physics — that would be a completely different planet we're living on.
Tucker Carlson: Well, you're a very wise man. I'm not embarrassed to say that out loud. And you certainly understand this country and what's happening. Viktor, I appreciate you spending the time. Thank you.
Viktor Bout: Thank you.